Docs Outside The Box
Hosts Dr. Nii (Ghanaian) and Dr. Renee (Haitian) are first-generation physicians who paid off $662,000 in student loans in 3 years - while figuring out contracts, career moves, and money management that their colleagues learned at home.
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- The questions you don't know to ask (but your colleagues already knew)
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Docs Outside The Box
How to Pay for Med School After Loan Changes! #470
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In this episode, we discuss a question from a pre-med student from a lower income background who is worried about pursuing medicine with the new student loan caps. We also offer advice on how to navigate these new financial obstacles, and whether becoming a doctor is still a viable path. If you're facing similar challenges, remember you're not alone. Reach out to mentors and be creative with your educational path.
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Student Loan Caps and Medical Dreams
Speaker 1Now that student loans have been capped, I'm not sure if this route is the best for me, as I come from a low-income household. I still want to pursue medicine. Can you please provide some advice on what to do next? Doesn't graduating from medicine becoming a doctor getting an attending salary? Wouldn't she be okay? I would say yes. I say that you're going to be making enough money as an attending to be able to pay off your student loans.
Speaker 2That's not even my issue. I'm not even there yet. The reality is not everybody can get a private loan, so I cannot, with my chest, fully say well, she's going to get there and she's going to graduate. I don't know that. It may not be anything academic at all. It may all stem from the fact that she is not able to pay, and schools are not in the business of financing your passion to become a doctor. They need cash. There are a lot of people out there who are in a similar situation, who are going to have dreams deferred.
Speaker 1Yo, what's good everybody, welcome to another episode of Docs Outside the Box. I'm your host, Dr Nii, trauma surgeon by night by night, podcaster by night by night, and we are recording on location. That's right. We're recording from Ghana, accra, ghana. This is a nice apartment that we're in. We'll talk about that later on. But I'm also joined by the hostess with the mostess the best co-host I've ever had this week.
Speaker 2The only co-host you've ever had. I've had other co-hosts who.
Speaker 1We've had other co-hosts on the show. We'll talk about it on another episode.
Speaker 2Okay, Dr Renee Come on episode.
Speaker 1Okay, dr Renee, come on, come in, hot yo, you're not bringing the energy. What's up? Hey, yo, listen just like. Whether it's the United States, whether it's the, which hemisphere are we on? What do you mean? Which hemisphere are we on? What are we on? I don't forget Northern, the northern hemisphere, all right, whether we are?
Speaker 2are we on the equator?
Speaker 1well as we get closer to the equator. Either way, the way in which we podcast and the time in which we podcast doesn't change. We podcasting at midnight, ghana time, because we got the kids with us. We're here in ghana for two. One is to do a medical mission. The medical mission that we do with the group called International Healthcare Volunteers, ihcvorg. That's an organization that we've been working with since me and you, definitively since 2012.
Speaker 1But this organization has been helping folks in Ghana and Jamaica since what? 2003? 2002. 2002. Renee is the historian, but it's a dope organization that provides anything from women's health to surgery, to pediatric care. We do everything and all things for two weeks. It's a great opportunity for us to do what we call a professional reboot. Yes, we've talked about this on previous episodes and we will talk about it while we're here, but we got a really good question on how to really pay for medical school and we're going to get a lot of these questions, because it's going to bring a lot of anxiety to folks, particularly, you know, people who are either pre-meds or people who are getting ready to apply, because now that the one big beautiful bill has come out, there's a lot of changes of how you're going to be able to pay for this.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1And people are nervous.
Speaker 2Very. I think people are extremely nervous and they have good reason to be.
Speaker 1Well, let me get the question up. So this is a question that we got actually here in Ghana, right, did we get it here in Ghana?
Speaker 2While we were here in Ghana.
Speaker 1Yeah, we got it here and we were going to write back, but we're like, let's answer it on a show and then we'll go from there. But listen, this is a question from Af fear and it says hi, dr Nee and Dr Renee, I recently graduated from undergrad, congratulations. And I'm in my gap year, right. So gap year is what?
Speaker 2Gap year basically means that you didn't go straight from college into medical school, so you have a year or more between the time that you finish college and enter medical school.
Speaker 1So for me, my gap year was working at Sports Authority. Some people work at Sears. Where'd you work at?
Speaker 2I had four gap years. You had how many gap years? I had two gap years. Yeah, I had four gap years and I did multiple jobs but eventually became a teacher and yeah, Just like Abbott Elementary yeah, All right.
Speaker 1And then the rest of her question says and also prepare myself for medical school. This is tough right Now that student loans have been capped. I'm not sure if this route is the best for me. As I come from a low income household, this upsets me. My parents are also planning to retire and return to their homeland, so I will have little to no support. I still want to pursue medicine. Can you please provide some advice on what to do next? Thank you so much.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1So that's a tough question. I want you to know that you're not alone. Right, there's a lot of people who got anxiety about this, so we're going to talk about this so.
Speaker 2Well, what about the big beautiful bill Like why is she so anxious at this particular point in time? Because she don't know how she's going to pay for it?
Understanding the Student Loan Crisis
Speaker 1Right. So let me get into the specifics. So we've talked about this on previous episodes, but I'm going to do a quick recap. So loans are kept from medical students, just so y'all know, right. So right now, starting July 1st of 2026, next year, federal loans for professional degrees we're talking about med school, law school, all the other professional schools that are out there. They're limited to $50,000 per year and a total of $200,000. Right, this is 2026. This is going to occur, right. And then the graduate plus loans that are out there, gone Right. Graduate plus loans that are out there, gone right.
Speaker 1And the reason why this is a big deal is your hosts listening to this show we graduated from medical school with $240,000 of student loan debt in four years in 2006. Yep, right. So we're talking about in 2000, I mean, we did in previous episodes the stats showed that in 2023, 2024, the average student loan debt graduating is almost $300,000. So you think about that For federal loans, right? If the average student loan debt is $300,000, federal loans are capped at $200,000. Where is the rest of the $100,000 coming from? Right, $200,000, where is the rest of the $100,000 coming from? Then they added some new repayment assistance plan. I'm not going to get into it, because ain't nobody going to hear that right now.
Speaker 2Well, I mean, how can you add repayment assistance when you can't even get the money to complete the degree in the first place?
Speaker 1Well, you're going to have to be able to pay $200,000 back in some form or fashion.
Speaker 2I get that, but $200,000 might not even get you to the finish line of your education. So hey, listen, right, Are people?
Speaker 1going to embark at this point, right now. $200,000 ain't going to get you to college.
Speaker 2This is true.
Speaker 1All right. Then they got streamlined repayment options. I'm not going to get too much into that, but basically things are streamlined. Not sure if they're better Less options, and we don't even know if PSLF is even going to exist. But it is for right now. Correct, it is for right now. So does she have a point in being nervous if she is down for becoming a doctor? If this is what it is that she wants to be, should it even matter? Dr Renee, what do you?
Speaker 2say, absolutely, it matters. It absolutely matters. Tell me why it matters. Because of what I just said. You know you could. So OK, so she could Essentially go ahead apply to med school. Let's say she gets in. She gets in and she's not going to hit the two hundred thousand dollar cap right away. Well, I should take that back, because she just finished college. I don't even know where. I don't even know where she is financially.
Speaker 1Oh, hold up, you keep talking because I actually I texted old girl.
Speaker 2OK, girl, I don't know where she is financially or where she is right now.
Speaker 1This is journalism, one on one. I ask, I ask other questions. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2So if she is already close to $200,000, she might not even be able to pay for her first year of medical school.
Speaker 1Okay. So let's add some context, as opposed to just saying we lost short. So she's saying that she graduated with $16,500 in student loan debt and she starts repayment in two months, which ain't that bad? Yeah, not bad at all. I graduated from undergrad with $25,000.
Speaker 2I don't know about you. I think I was around $25,000 to $30,000.
Speaker 1For me. I graduated $2,000.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1You was 19. How much did you graduate with?
Speaker 2Anyway, it was about $30,000. I think it was about $30,000. I think it's about $30,000. What? $25,000 to $30,000, I think From.
Speaker 1Pace.
Speaker 2Yeah, it was $25,000 to $30,000. But either way, okay, so that's not bad. So she will likely be able to pay for her first and second year, and just to be clear.
Speaker 1so does that mean you take that $16,500 and you subtract that from the $200?
Speaker 2Most likely if they're saying that it is capped. Now the question becomes because this is in 2026, will that $16,000 count? Got you which I don't know the answer to?
Speaker 1Yeah, I'm going to have to do more research.
Special Master's Programs vs Post-Bac Options
Speaker 2Yeah, I don't know what the answer is Now. She won't be able to pay for that without taking a personal loan, right? So that's the key Private loan or a private loan. She will not be able to pay for that without taking a private loan or with scholarships. For that, without taking a private loan or with scholarships like that is essentially her only, like that's her only option. Well, we talked about this join the military. That's another option. I don't know if she wants to do that right now, but that would be another option. But okay, that so which counts?
Speaker 1the scholarship, the options that you're given. I want to do the options because I can talk about those options right. What I want to get from you is the, the stuff that you can't really quantify the quality of things right, like the stuff that you, the visceral type stuff, like when she graduates, graduates, let's, she's going to graduate, she's going to get to med school, she's going to graduate, but doesn't. Graduating from medicine, or graduating from med school becoming a doctor, getting an attending salary, wouldn't she be okay, like wouldn't she be all right, wouldn't it be worth going through all of that stuff to be able to say I'm a doctor, I'm helping my community, abcd, all these different things, and be able to afford to be able to pay back those loans? I would say yes, I say that you're going to be making enough money as an attending to be able to pay off your student loans.
Speaker 2Yeah, I get that, but that's that road going to be tough though, but that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2I'm like that's not even my issue. I'm not even there yet. I'm not to the point where she's going to graduate, because the reality is and let us be clear that not everybody can get a private loan. Not everybody can get a private loan. So I cannot, with my chest, fully say, well, she's going to get there and she's going to graduate. I don't know that, I don't know that, you know, and she, it may not be anything academic at all, it may all stem from the fact that she is not able to pay and schools are not in the business of, you know, fueling or financing your passion. You know, to become a doctor, they need cash, they need cash. So I'm not even at the point where I can say fully, well, she's going to get this, she's going to graduate.
Speaker 2I actually disagree with that. I don't know, I don't think we know, whether or not anybody you know who's in this position is going to be able to finish. And I don't mean, you know me, I am the, you know, ultimate, ultimate. But at this point I'm just kind of like I really don't know. There are a lot of people out there who are in a similar situation, who are going to have dreams deferred?
Speaker 1Yeah, definitely. The key things for her are this she graduates with $16,000 in student loan debt, which is not bad. The thing that I caught was that she's wanting to do a special master's program to increase her GPA. Sounds like it's going to cost money. Sounds like a post-bac right.
Speaker 2Not post-bac, but so a post-bac actually might be cheaper, depending on how she does it.
Speaker 1So that's another thing you want to make sure that this special master's program that you're doing is not just increasing your gpa but it's actually getting you ready to actually apply to med school, right? Those?
Speaker 2well, I mean, that's usually why people get it, though yeah.
Speaker 1But I mean, if you're doing a special master's program that's gonna like give you that you that's going to like like, for example, like couldn't you do special master's programs that like don't like you're it's not specifically preparing you to actually get into med school is maybe helping you get like.
Speaker 2No, most of the time the the what they call SMPs, the special master's programs, are typically those that are geared towards helping students apply to medical school. That's usually why they call them special master's programs.
Speaker 1Ok, I thought I didn't know there was such thing as the actual special yeah special math.
Speaker 2Yeah, they're actual special master's. I don't think they're new. I don't necessarily know that they called it special master's programs when we were going through, but they do call them special master's programs now and they're usually learning new stuff. There's usually, like you know, an accelerated time frame, so maybe like a like, instead of a two year they'll do like a one year special master's program, so it becomes very, very rigorous and a lot of these programs also have, like MCAT prep and things like that.
Speaker 2So a special master's program can cost Programs and their it depends. But some of them might actually pay for you to go through the program, depending on, I guess, the school, the circumstance, who's sponsoring it, those kinds of things. So I don't know which program she's going to go to.
Speaker 1Well, she needs to be strategic in finding those type of programs then. Yes, like that needs to be priority number one. Yes, yes, like that needs to be priority number one. Yes, right, the other thing that I found about her is that is stands out is low-income household, which means that somehow loans has to be involved in this. Loans were involved, or scholarship Loans were involved in college. Sounds like loans may be involved in at least med school. Yeah, and then parents are also planning to retire and return to their homeland, so that probably means not going to be able to take out a Parent PLUS loan, correct, yeah?
Speaker 2go ahead. So the question is the question is yeah, well, that's the question, um. But the question is she graduated with sixteen thousand dollars of student loan debt from college, which we know college don't cost no sixteen thousand dollars, which means she definitely got either some sort of financial aid and or she had some scholarships to help cover a bulk of the cost of college, or parent plus loans were taken out to also help with that. So, yeah, there's a question of whether or not her parents would be able to co-sign, but considering that they are, they will no longer be in the country, right?
Speaker 1I don't know how that would work. Let's give some advice. Let's say she came to you. I would recommend going and trying to find as many scholarships or as many, how much funding that you can get with these programs and try to prioritize those as much as possible. I think for you right now the key thing is you want to try to use free money first, right Anywhere that you can find free money, whether it's scholarships, whether it's any type of grants, if it's some type of work, study, whatever you can do right now so that you can save the federal student loans for actual medical school. I think that is the key, if you can.
Speaker 2I think that is the key. If you can, yes, but I also um. You know, I also am also. I'm questioning whether or not the special master's program or any master's program is even necessary, because we actually don't know what her grades are, we, I don't know her academic status, and did I ask her that? Let me see right, no, I didn't ask her academic status at all. Did I ask her that? Let me?
Speaker 1see Right? No, I didn't ask her that, so why are you mentioning that?
Creating Your Own Academic Path
Speaker 2I'm mentioning that because sometimes students will do master's programs when, honestly, all they might need is to take a couple of post-bac courses. So what is a post-bac? So post-bac courses are when you, after you've graduated from college, you go back and you take college courses. You take more college courses, but you've already graduated. You've already graduated, but you take, you go back and you take more college level courses instead of going into a master's level program or taking master's level courses. So sometimes you'll have students, for example, like me, right, so I didn't do well in biochemistry Biochemistry after I graduated. Biochemistry was a course that I retook after I had graduated, right, so I didn't fail it in in college. But I actually need a master's program. Or can I get away with doing some post-bac courses?
Speaker 1So retaking things that they've already maybe not have done well in, as opposed to doing something that's like you ain't got to go to a master's program and take PCAM to prove that you need to go to med school Exactly. All you really need to know is that you really understand and you need to do well in organic chemistry All right. So for me, what I ended up doing, I didn't get into. I took a gap year for two years. I did, like virology right, which is not master's level courses. I took virology one, virology two. I just basically I didn't have any. I didn't have any like D's or F's or anything like that. Or if I did, I already corrected them by taking summer courses. But I knew I need to strengthen my no, but you were in a master's program.
Speaker 1I was, but I wasn't. What does that mean? I was, but I wasn't, like I wasn't in a spec. Well, I definitely wasn't a specialized master's program.
Speaker 1No you don't have to be in a special. I was kind of in like a master's kind of track, so to speak, that I did myself and just so everybody knows like I ad hoc this. So what I mean by that is I put it all together myself. My coach had helped me figure out a way. They had like some type of graduate assistant program. If you come back as a graduate assistant. Out of the way they had some type of graduate assistant program. If you come back as a graduate assistant I graduated from college you go back and if I coach track and field and cross country, they would pay a significant amount, if not all of it, all of my credits, for whatever courses I wanted to take for one or two years. So for me I just said, well, I'm going to create this master's level course. I had to apply it into the master's program.
Speaker 2So you created your own post-bac. My own post-bac, Right right.
Speaker 1So we all excuse me, a lot of us do it, afiya. A lot of us do this and we make it work. What Dr Renee is basically saying, if I get you right, is like yo, you don't really necessarily need to go to a specialized master's program to prove to somebody that you can handle med school type courses. Maybe all you need to do is create your own little post-bac program.
Speaker 2Right like a.
Speaker 1DIY. I texted her about this. I was like, listen, maybe you should just create your own post-bac program, find your local college and put it together. Does it matter if it's community college?
Speaker 2So I would say steer clear from a community college, try to do a four year. So if you can do. You know, depending on where you are either you know your city college or your state college you know where it might be cheaper for you to attend. But you'll have more flexibility in terms of work so you might be able to work as well, because once you get into a specialized master's program, the chances that you're going to be able to work at your own pace is probably going to be lower. You're probably not going to have as much flexibility. So again, it depends on the program, right? So I can't say that blanketly. It depends on program.
Speaker 1So basically, for what it sounds like for me at this point right now the ability to just be like I'm going to just try this and swing for the fences without getting any type of advice from someone. Those days are gone, because if you mess this up, that could be 30K down the drain. That decreases how much loans you can get. So you just got to be smart about it.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Reach out to people which you have. And yeah, I think like, for example, like me. Obviously I was getting funded for what I did as a graduate assistant, but someone who's-.
Speaker 2And that might be an option for her as well. See if you can go back to your college as a TA right, and maybe if you go back, I say you can get free money first. Yeah.
Speaker 1Right, Anything that you can get free money, first right, and then I would the second layer. It's almost like a cake. The second layer is like start borrowing cheapest to the most expensive, yeah, and then save those private loans for last. And I'm going to tell y'all right now if you are pre-med, right now, you need to start running your credit right now. You need to know if someone put a car in your name. You need to start saving them some corn. You need to know if an apartment is in your name, I don't know. You need to know if your electric bill is in your name. You need to know if the gas bill is in your name, For real, For real. I'm dead serious. Because no, because these things happen, Because what's going to happen is the private loans. They're just the people who own the private loans. This is a money grab for them.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, absolutely so they actually.
Speaker 1they might make it easier to get a private loan, but they just may jack up the interest rate, yeah, and just make this like. I hope they don't do this. But, if this ends up becoming like what do you call those? Like payday loans or?
Speaker 2something yeah.
Speaker 1Where you know like, we had private loans. Me and you took our private loans for our MBA while in med school and we was anywhere between like 9% to 13%. Yeah, but you know we're talking about. If they start and, like you know, these people need to get through I can see them making it easier to get a loan.
Speaker 2But we're like yo're gonna have to pay like 20 percent, yeah, 25 percent, which is scary. Which is scary, I mean it. I mean you, you're right about that. Um, that it might, they might make it easier for people to then get loans. But it's like, be careful, be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it, you know, and without without all of the loan repayment options on the table, because these are going to bring back all of those options you have a private loan potentially of $100,000, $150,000. That might not be eligible and that's a lot to not be eligible.
Managing Debt and Finding Free Money
Speaker 1I just think, like I saw what she said, where she came from a low-income household and it just to me. That breaks my heart Because it's like, yeah, but you could come from a low-income household. Academically you are straight and you have so much that you can give. Yeah, so much to offer. Because someone can't flip the bill for you, or because, basically, someone can't flip the bill for you, you don't get a chance to.
Speaker 2Not even flip the bill. Honestly, this is not even about flip the bill. It's like, listen, she's willing to pay the bill. It's just a question of whether or not somebody will actually bill her right. Like she's got to be able to get the loan and that's the tragic part. It's like, so I can't even get a loan. Like I'm not even asking someone to pay for me. I'm asking for a loan so that I may pay later with interest, Can I?
Speaker 1do that? It's tough. And the answer is no. And it's tough because you've got to do this arbitrage of like yo. So if I enter down this path right and I get maybe into my first year or second year, and what if I hit my max Right? What if I hit my? This is a real thing, guys, because a lot of you all may be like, oh, academically she should be able to. No, no, no, this is a.
Speaker 1Okay, you are finishing up your second year or trying to get through your second year. You've already taken out and you're at your maximum of $200,000. And let's say you can't get a private loan and now it's time to pay for third year. What do you do now? Right, so it's like, well, you may have to take a hard loan from someone you may. What are you going to do? So if you have to drop out? Now, you're dropping out, possibly With so much in loan, with $200,000 through the loan debt. So I would say, I would say this look, get that free money first. Get that free money first. Any type of grants, any type of like merit based thing, get that, yo, get it. Um, any type of scholarships that your church, ymca, anything in your local area that you can apply for. Try to apply for at least 10.
Speaker 2Let me tell you something right now people should make looking for scholarships a second job if you have a first. And if you don't have a first, make it your first job. Like honestly, make it your job. Like sit down, give yourself a eight hour window, punch, punch out and start seriously looking for and applying to scholarships. Like it is your freaking job.
Speaker 1So I saw this point on the internet and it makes a lot of sense. It says because of the one big beautiful bill, you have to look at borrowing like calories, right? So basically, if borrowing doesn't move you towards your goal, right, don't, don't borrow, don't consume it. Yeah, this is not the old days, guys.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Where it's like oh well, I'll just pay all of it back later.
Speaker 2Yeah, don't do it. Yeah, here's the other thing I think we should definitely say make sure you are going to medical school when you are absolutely academically in the mindset, like academically mature, to go into medical. You know what I'm getting that, yeah, I know, make sure that you are academically mature enough to go to medical school, because I'm telling you so. The other day I'm going a little bit of a tangent here I spoke to two of my mentees and you know we were talking. There's one mentee who he's in his third year now and then there's another mentee who she's she actually just started her first year. And you know I was telling them I'm like, listen, you know you're not in school. And they're like both of them were like what do you mean? I'm like you're not in school.
Speaker 2This ain't school. School is your mama and your daddy told you you had to go to school because if you didn't go to school you'd get in trouble and you'd get your homework and you had to take the test and you didn't do well on the test and you're going to get in trouble with your mommy and daddy and this, that and the other. This ain't school. The implication of school is you get in trouble. The implication of medical school and unfortunately they don't have another word really that fits but the implication of medical school is somebody dies, you seriously injure somebody, so you're not in school, you are in training from from the get go. You are in training. This is what you're doing. You are training to become a doctor. This is more than school. So you can't go into medical school looking at it like school, like this is not school. I go to school Like I understand that you get a bunch of grades and stuff, but those grades have implication.
Speaker 1Well, actually, this is the way it should have been from the get go, right, Because school shouldn't have been a place for you to kind of just figure things out, right. Like school, as you always say, school is for adults and that's where you got to do some serious learning, some serious growing. I do think that for our listener, I talked about making sure you talk about the free money first and then saving the loans until later on. I mean, if I were you right now, like I said, look for those programs that are going to pay. If not, you want to look for scholarships. The other thing, too, like you mentioned, is listen, can you do this post-bac while you're working? Figure out your own little post-bac program that you can make up on your own.
Speaker 2The goal is to show the schools that you can that basically that you have changed the trajectory of the kind of student that you are, that you're on an upward trajectory to be able to handle rigorous medical school courses. So so what about?
Speaker 1the folks, because this is a good one. What about the folks who who, like they got Cs, they got Bs, they got some as, but like you graduate, do you go back? Let's say it's time to create your own post-bac program? Do you go back and redo the Cs or like, how do you do?
Speaker 2that I think, again, it's going to depend, right. So I can't. Again, it's going to depend, right. So I can't again blanketly just be like, oh well, anything that you got a C in you should just take over. It depends on what you got the C in, right. Did you get a C in something that is a prerequisite? You might want to think about taking that over. Did you get a C in something that was kind of like, oh, it would have been nice if you got an A, but you know you didn't and doesn't really, you know it's not going to harm you, so it really just all depends, right.
Speaker 2So that's where you have to get someone to kind of really analyze what your transcript is and decide again do I do a postbac, you know, do I do a post-bac, do I do a post-bac program, do I do a DIY post-bac and those are not the same thing and do I do a master's program? The difference between a DIY post-bac and a DIY excuse me, a DIY post-bac and a post-bac program is that a post-bac program, much like a special master's program, is going to essentially map out what your schedule is, you know, and so you may or may not be able to work during that time, depending on again, on how rigorous it is and all the activities that they have lined up for you again on how rigorous it is and all the activities that they have lined up for you. So, and then with the post-bac program, you are likely going to have to pay up front, whereas the DIY which I did, a DIY post-bac was I just chose the courses. Like I said, biochemistry was one of them. I chose when I wanted to take biochemistry and I think I took something else Also.
Speaker 2I think I took molecular biology, but you didn't take any loans. I didn't take any loans. You bankrolled this. Yes, I bankrolled it. I worked, but I was able to choose what my schedule was going to be. I was able to choose when I was going to take the class that I wanted to take. No OnlyFans back then. No OnlyFans back then. Which, listen, I ain't mad at nobody. We're going to see more OnlyFans. We're going to see more bouncers.
Speaker 1We're going to see more dancers.
Speaker 2Listen. Well, let's not dance, but listen. I'm not mad at no pre-med or med school who don't show their face. Show your face and make sure your profile is. I mean something that nobody can figure. I ain't mad at nobody. Put your feet on there.
Speaker 1Yo, afiya, we joking, but for real, for real. Like I think it sounds like you may need to go down I'm not joking, but like I feel like you may need to work on for me, I would really be focusing on yo this next year. Whatever I'm paying for, or maybe having to take a loan for, I got to make sure it's just for one year, right? Like, getting into med school has to be the next thing. Right, that's tough. Right, you can't forecast this. If you need to, that gap year needs to be one year or two years or what have you. If it's going to be longer than that, you have to bankroll this, right?
Speaker 2So this is what I will say One the other. So you might also need to take a breather Right. You might also need to take a breather Right. You might need to take a breather. You know, when I graduated from college, I thought my gap years were going to be two.
Speaker 1I thought it was going to be two. No, I got you. But I mean, during that time when you're taking a quote unquote breather, you're not incurring any more debt. Correct, Right? So whether you take a breather after she does her specialist masters or her post-bac, you would think that she's taking a breather after she realizes. Yo, I checked all the boxes. Now all I got to do is just put in my applications and go from there.
Speaker 1Correct, but what I'm, what I am saying, is that Some people be taking a breather and they're like I want to do another semester as a breather.
Life Balance and Academic Timing
Speaker 2Yeah, no, when I say a breather, I mean take as a breather. Yeah, no, when I say a breather, I mean take a break from any academic activities. But the reason that I'm saying that is because oftentimes when students graduate and realize that they are not getting into medical school right after graduation, they feel like there's a rush to. Well, I have to. Like you said, I got to do the next thing, I gotta go for another semester, I need to do X, y and Z and it's like, um, not necessarily. You might want to take a little bit of a break and try to figure out, especially in this case if your parents are moving, you know, to their home country and you don't know what that's going to look like for you. You don't know what it's going to look like for you. Even you know housing wise, potentially right you don't know what that's going to look like for you.
Speaker 2The question becomes do you want that added stress as you are trying to embark on going into medical school? Right, because you know nothing happens in a bubble. You go into medical school is not here, and then everything with your family is going on over there. It's all this one big bubble and everything is going on inside of it. So you've got to be really careful about going into school with the stress of your parents moving. Now you got to pay for, you know, your upcoming student loan debt. You need to get a job in order to do that. Oh, you're also doing, you know, more academic work. But how are you going to pay for that? Well, okay, you're going to pay for it with more loans.
Speaker 1But wait a minute. So basically, what you're saying is she might be a nervous wreck. Exactly, she may not know. Exactly, you may not even know. You don't even know you got to be cognizant of that situation that you may be just handling a whole bunch of issues and you just may need a breather. Exactly.
Speaker 2It's like take a break and try to figure out where you are. It's right. It's kind of like like, once you're in, like you're in surgery, right, and you have a bleeder, and you're like oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, I need to stop the bleeding. I need to stop the bleeding is the thing that you need to do in order to kind of reset and be like all right. So I believe, but bleeding is right in front of you, though I get it a lot of hold on.
Speaker 1A lot of times you can't really see that you are a nervous wreck and you're frayed at the ends and you're burning the candles at both ends. Correct, that's not in front of you. A lot of times Correct.
Speaker 2But that's what I'm saying is that you need to assess whether or not you're bleeding and if you are, then you need to stop the bleeding. Once you stop the bleeding, then you can chill, reassess. What do I need to do? Right, because when you see bleeding in front of you, you're not thinking about oh, the next step in surgery is for me to take out this organ. Right, you're thinking I need to stop the bleeding Now. If taking out the organ is.
Speaker 1I don't know what you're talking about. What the hell are you talking about? That's what.
Speaker 2I'm thinking it depends on what's bleeding, babe. It depends If a aorta is bleeding you're not speaking it out I might.
Speaker 1Okay, okay, whatever, anyway, right, let's assume, but we got the point we don't need to talk this over and over again.
Speaker 2No, because you keep interrupting me, as you usually always interrupt me. Go ahead, though. Say what you see, I'm done now. I'm okay now.
Speaker 1All right, but here's one thing that I think is a good question that I was thinking about as I was taking notes and I was like, hmm, what if she asked us this Postbac or the special master's program? What if she just like, look, I ain't got it, I'm going to have to take out a private loan. Should she use a private loan to pay for this, or should she work part-time to do this? Let's be definitive.
Speaker 2You mean for the special masters? Yes, no, I would exhaust the federal loans on that one.
Speaker 1So you would take a federal loan out? Yep, I would save that for med school. I wouldn't.
Speaker 2I would do a private loan.
Speaker 1I wouldn't, I would do a private loan. I wouldn't, I would do a private loan. So, okay, this is what I would do. If that was the case, then I'd be like yo, like I really got to do, DIY this. And if I DIY this program or DIY this post, I need to DIY my own post back.
Speaker 2I mean that, yes, yeah that, yes. That's what? Yeah that, yes, DIY. I would do a DIY with part-time work to pay off the post-bac courses, Because you could end up taking what? Four courses over a matter of a year or two years.
Speaker 1So basically what you're saying is, if there was a specialized master's program, but you knew it was going to be like 30K or something like that, which more than likely you'd have a hard time bankrolling upfront or over a year. You would just say I'm just going to have to DIY it myself and do a post-bac.
Speaker 2Yeah, I would do the post-bac.
Speaker 1Got you All right. Now, as we know, there's going to be mad people trying to do all these different type of federal scholarships, National Health Service Corps Talk to us about that. Is it worth it?
Speaker 2I mean anytime, anybody's going to pay for your education? Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1But see, the key thing is, I think this is really tough, particularly when you are just going into med school. You got to know what you want to do. What do you mean Like if you because National Health Service Corps is primary care.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1But if you have dreams of becoming a surgeon but you're just like, I'll deal with this later. I just want to get my grade, I just want to get my med school paid for, I'll worry about all this other stuff later. Like the consequences of breaking that contract and going into surgical specialty are steep and just in general you probably just going to feel handcuffed, Like why am I doing something?
Speaker 2that I really don't want to do, right? I mean so for those of you who may not understand what we're talking about. National Health Service Corps essentially is an organization that is a federal organization that gives you a scholarship contingent upon you doing a primary care specialty. So that would be family medicine, internal medicine, obstetrics, gynecology, pediatrics. There's one more, there's one more. Is there one more? Ob? Right, I said OB, not surgery, not derm, not derm, not dermatology, not plastics.
Speaker 1Okay, but they get the point. They can pick it up.
Speaker 2So it's primary care. So if you are like me, who went in thinking I was going to die hard, be a pediatrician, and you decide that you're going through you know school and you say, ok, well, I don't want to be a pediatrician anymore, you would still have to make sure that whatever you don't want to be falls within another primary care specialty. So for me it would have worked out, because I still ended up doing OB even though I didn't want to do pediatrics and that's considered a primary care specialty. But if I had said, well, no, I decide, you know, I'm thinking I want to be a surgeon and I got National Health Service Corps scholarship, that would be a fatality, because the penalty last I checked was that you would have to pay back three times the amount that you borrowed.
National Health Service Corps Option
Speaker 1Yeah, it's. It's crazy, it's not worth. Well, I don't know. That's a high interest. You can make it. Yeah, the penalty is out there there are people willing to pay that penalty. That's the reason why and stuff. So listen, I think we kind of talked about this enough.
Speaker 2Maybe if you go to CT surgery, it's going to be worth it. No, it's not. Actually, it's not.
Speaker 1Ortho, we know, maybe ortho, derm, opto, but I would say this, afiya, I think that I appreciate you writing us in, I appreciate you sharing this question because I could tell that you got anxiety about this. A lot of people have anxiety about this and even if we were able to decrease your anxiety by a small amount, listen, share this episode with other people and let them know what to do. But I think definitely the number one thing is one figure out how you can do all of this stuff free or with a lot of scholarships. Then, second, save those are for where the scholarship excuse me, that's for where the loans come in if you need it right. Obviously, in those situations you want to save private loans for last right, private loans with the highest interest.
Speaker 1You want to save those last because those are going to accumulate and get bigger very quick, Whereas the federal loans, usually the interest rate is lower. So if you need it, you want to go to the federal funds first, right. And then, last but not least, see if you're working at a job. See if there's any way they can give you any type of tax deduction or any type of contribution towards your education. You know, you never know. There's a lot of jobs out there right now and you'd be surprised, Working at the movie theaters. There's certain movie theaters. There's certain what else is out there. There's certain like retail stores, Starbucks. They have actual tuition reimbursement. So you'd be surprised, Some of these jobs that you may not think would have tuition reimbursement, they may have it. So check those out also.
Speaker 2Get really creative with it, don't stick to just well, you know I want to get experience that's going to help me get into medical school.
Speaker 2Sometimes the experience that's going to help you get into medical school isn't where you think it's going to come. Especially if they're going to pay for you to go to school and maybe finish that master's or do that post-bac program, that might be the thing that actually helps you get into medical school. Remember, getting into medical school isn't just about checking the boxes of all of the you know requirements. It's also about being able to pay for it. The thing I would add to your list I don't know if you're done with your list, but the thing that I would add to your list is figure out your timing right. Is this the right time to be embarking on all of these things, considering all the other things that you have going on? If you know, once you figure it out, like, okay, this is the time for me to go, so that this I'm in the least stressed position as possible, then you can kind of go on and look at master's programs versus post-bac programs versus private loans versus federal loans.
Speaker 1Stakes is high Stakes is high.
Speaker 1But listen, we need you in medicine, so it'll be great to have you there. So it's going to be some work. It's going to take some creativity, there's going to be some mistakes, it's okay, but reaching out to us is actually a really good step, which means that you're thinking about that and we feel honored that you reached out to us. So let us know if this helped you, share this with others and listen, guys. It's not about perfection. It's about kind of just making sure you're taking the right steps asking for people, asking from people who've done it before. Look, let me get your advice and listen. That's what we're here for, and plus, the algorithm shows that y'all don't listen to the end. So we love you, guys. This is Docs Outside the Box. I'm Dr Lee. This is Dr Renee from Ghana. This is supposed to be a short one. This ended up being a long one.
Speaker 2Yeah, it did, but you did say that you were going to tell them about this apartment. You're not going to tell them today.
Final Advice and Encouragement
Speaker 1That's another episode. On the next episode y'all Peace, bye, free tuition, right, we're talking about the NYUs, we're talking about the Albert Einsteins. Like those are super competitive. Aye aye, aye, oh, we just lost light. Doomsaw, doomsaw, we just lost light.
Speaker 2All right, let's just wait for the generator to kick in. Ten nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two.
